Historian and Georgetown professor Thomas Zimmer says "Project 2025 is their declaration of war on this idea of America. That's what this is. And so in many ways, this is on the ballot in November." In a June podcast interview with MSNBC's Chris Hayes, Zimmer continued, "These people could not possibly be clearer about what they want for the country. So at least trust them and believe them when they say they are just fundamentally not on board with this vision of an egalitarian, pluralistic democracy."
"Those are the stakes. And I think this is really, you know, in a fundamental way in November is going to be a referendum on whether or not we want to continue down this path towards multiracial, pluralistic, egalitarianism or not. And this should be read as a reminder of the fact that those are the actual stakes in the election. "
People Need to Take Project 2025 Seriously
The Georgetown professor told Hayes that the "biggest mistake" people make about Project 2025 is not taking the Republican plans seriously. Zimmer explained that many people believe since Trump was in power before, a second term would be "more of the same."
But Zimmer said, "But this time, not only are they going to have the plans and the personnel, which again, they did decidedly not have in 2017." The historian noted Trump now has a supermajority on the Supreme Court, and all the moderate Republicans (like Mitt Romney) have been driven out of the party.
Creators of Project 2025 Are True Believers
Zimmer noted that Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts was "ecstatic" about the 2022 rise of neo-fascists and Giorgia Meloni in Italy. The historian explained,"He [Roberts] was like, this is it. This is the model for American conservatives...These people are true believers. This is not some moderate Republican traditional conservatives." Just watch the video above to get a snapshot of Roberts and his view of the world.
Project 2025 Not Just About Dismantling Government
Zimmer told Hayes that Project 2025 is an "authoritarian takeover of government." The professor said that Project 2025 creators want to "dismantle certain parts of government, everything that can be used as a tool for like a more egalitarian, fairer society, that needs to go." Heritage Foundation president Roberts said the Supreme Court ruling on immunity was a "second American revolution."
However, Zimmer explained that other parts of the federal government, Roberts and the Republicans "want to mobilize and weaponize and not dismantle at all. They want to turn government into an instrument to impose their vision of society on the country. And I think that's really something very different from dismantling the government."
Zimmer stated that Project 2025 has two purposes, "One is to punish your enemies. And two is to impose this sort of vision of white Christian patriarchal order on American society." If you have time, it's worth listening to Zimmer's entire interview with Chris Hayes. It's chilling.
Thomas Zimmer writes about Project 2025 in his Substack called "Democracy Americana." He also hosts a podcast called "Is This Democracy?"
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