God, Mary Matalin is such an old, bitter, sourpuss, isn't she? Look at how angry she gets when Paul Krugman contradicts her on the facts. Guess it must really suck being the one with no credibility!

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you brought up the trend over the last year, and I want to come to you in a second, Jon. But first, let's put up this chart we have showing that trend across several presidencies of the last year of an incumbent running for president, and it does show, Mary Matalin, that President Obama's improvement in the unemployment rate in an election year is in the green zone, in the zone where presidents get re-elected.

MATALIN: Here is the real world, as Peggy alluded to. Real median incomes have fallen twice as much under the Obama recovery as they did in the Bush recession. At this point in time, under Ronald Reagan's policies, which Governor Reagan has a 21st century application of, growth and jobs were growing at five times the rate they are.

Let's just look at last year. The states where 17 governors, Republican governors instituted conservative reforms, those states are growing their economy and creating jobs at twice the rate the national one. This is about policies. We know they've worked. There is no recovery in the history of any recessions or depressions that have been as slow and as poor as this one and the revisions upwards --

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MATALIN: Yes, it is, Dr. Krugman. It's completely, totally true.

KRUGMAN: I'm sorry, but it just isn't true.

MATALIN: I don't make up numbers.

KRUGMAN: Well, but just look at them, then. Because the fact of the matter is, this is actually a fairly typical slow post-financial crisis recovery, which is picking up speed. So although it's terrible -- and I've been bitterly critical of policymakers in general for not doing more -- the fact of the matter is we are clearly now in the upswing, where you can see the beginnings of a turnaround.