It is more like a political party, but the only members are the Murdochs, and as you know it has driven populous right wing agendas, denying climate change, supporting extremism on right of politics, of populous politics to the extent most irresponsibly at all you might think, supporting the proposition that Joe Biden had in fact stolen the election and was not legitimately elected president.

And that or course was directly connected to the sacking of the -- the assault, the violent assault on the United States' Capitol -- shocking event and one of the darkest days in America's political history.

STELTER: You, Mr. Turnbull, seem more disturbed by the attack on the U.S. Capitol than a lot of people here in the United States. A lot of conservatives are trying to deny what happened and pretend it wasn't that bad but I appreciate that you saw it for what it was.

TURNBULL: Well it was an assault on democracy. It was -- and you see, what Murdoch has delivered, largely through Fox News in the United States, is exactly what Vladimir Putin wanted to achieve with his disinformation campaigns. Turning one part of America against another. So exacerbating the divisions that already exist in American society, and undermine the trust Americans have in their democratic institutions.

That was the objective of the Russian disinformation campaign and that is exactly what is being delivered from -- by Fox News and by other players in that right-wing populous media ecosystem. And it is in effect, what they have created is a market for crazy.

They've become unhinged from the facts, that is now basically, they've worked out that you could just make stuff up. They -- everyone talks about and complains about social media, but what is being done by curated media, mainstream media, including and in particular Fox News, has done enormous damage to the United States.

I mean the question you have to ask yourself is, is America a more divided country than it was before thanks to Murdoch's influence? The answer must be yes. Do Americans have less faith in their electoral institutions, in their legitimate institutions of government as a result of Murdoch? Yes. Now that is a terrible outcome. That is a terrible outcome.

I would say that Lachlan is more right-wing than his father, more extreme and I think that the bottom line is they enjoy the power. You know, a lot of people assume that people are attracted to power simply for the purpose of doing something. That is a very generous assumption.

Many people in the media, in business, in politics are attracted to power for its own sake and asking them why do you want to exert this power is like saying to somebody, why do you want to have sex? It is something... it's an urge. It is a -- so the power, the influence, that is what turns them on.

And it is very, very dangerous, and I saw the relationship between Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump. I have never seen a politician as deferential to Murdoch as Trump was, and, you know, it was clearly a very symbiotic relationship.

Murdoch knew very well, I know this, he knew very well what Trump's short comings were, he didn't think he was qualified to be president, but once he thought he could make him president, and have that influence over him, to what end, he did so. And so you ended up again, where did you end? You ended with an assault on the Congress. You ended up with a country that were a third, so I recently saw of the public, believe that Biden was not legitimately elected, in defiance of all of the facts and all of the reality.

Now that is a -- that is a -- that is the type of outcome that Vladimir Putin could only dream of having achieved. But it was done by Rupert Murdoch, Lachlan and their organization and they are not held to account at all. But they should be.