BOB WOODWARD: We have a president who has forsaken his duty to tell the truth and organize and plan what is he going to do as president. Time and time again we know and I've got more endless examples of this, of him making decisions on impulse, tweeting, driving people crazy who work for him, and then they leave or he fires them by tweet and he says the cruelest things. I mean, the idea that you -- somebody you brought from retirement like Mattis and Tillerson, Dan Coats... and then treat them that way is not just shocking -- I think the president in all of the things he's doing here has forsaken a larger duty, which is a moral duty, to do what's best for the country. This is a moral failure and a leadership failure. This idea about the election he's predicting and almost wishing for a quadruple train wreck on November 3rd.

NICOLLE WALLACE (HOST): I could not agree with you more. All of the handwringing about the norms is misplaced. This statement yesterday is about obliterating the Constitution. Rod Rosenstein was reported to have whipped votes for the 25th Amendment. No one has challenged what Mattis and Coats have said. Since your book came out, I heard they have felt that way for a very long time. I wonder if it escalates things when it's not just the obliteration of norms, but also obliterating the Constitution.

WOODWARD: It's not just challenging the constitution. It's putting a dagger in the constitution.

WALLACE: Right.

WOODWARD: For the President of the United States to do that is -- you know, I don't know whether there's language to describe this and what's happened is that Trump has been like this from the beginning, before he was elected president, just saying outrageous things, doing outrageous things. He's made the country and the world numb. 'Oh, well, that's the way it is. Oh, 1,000 people died today because of the virus, well, it isn't 2,000 like it was before. So things are getting better.'

Things are getting worse and I don't know where the wake-up call comes to the country. This isn't about Trump voters or Biden voters. You know, this idea that some of our colleagues, Nicolle, have scorned Trump voters. They say, you know, you aren't a decent person if you believe in Trump, that's just not the case. I know Trump voters who are business planners, who are business people, who are military people, who are law enforcement officers, who are workers. They are decent people. We may agree or disagree with them, but this idea that somehow we're setting ourselves up in the media or in the Democratic party, hey, there's only one way to look at it and it's our way, that doesn't sell with people.