"There was an extraordinary interview that Jared Kushner, who happens to be the president's son-in-law and White House senior adviser, did over at Axios," John Berman said.

"I want to start with the issue of racism where Jonathan Swan really pressed Kushner on whether or not the president is a racist. Initially Kushner said no, no, no, he hasn't been racist his whole life, how can he be racist now? (Editor's note: Except for the numerous documented times he was.) Jonathan Swan came back at him with the idea of birtherism.

"Four times, 'I was not involved with that,' John," Berman said.

"Doesn't make it go away. You can read that as 'yes, it was racist but I can't say that because he's not only the president but my father-in-law,' " Avlon said.

"The fact he never said no --" Camerota said

"I think that gives him too much credit for the repeated dodge and unwillingness to confront the question from a position of -- " Avlon said.

"Nevertheless, he couldn't answer it, which I think is telling. Sometimes people in the White House -- we hear it sometimes from Sarah Sanders and others, they adopt the president's language, they adopt the president's viewpoint. the fact that Jared Kushner didn't say no, no, that wasn't racist, the president -- Donald Trump was just confused about where Barack Obama was born. He didn't even attempt to do that," Camerota said.

"I think some things are too sickening to swallow, even for the birther wing."

"With him, I heard him trying to protect his legacy somehow, the Jared Kushner legacy needs to be separate from birtherism. I'm not going to touch this at all."

"I think it's going to be very tough to separate the Kushner and Trump legacies," Avlon concluded.