Alan Colmes sat down with Catholic League President, Bill Donohue. He asked Bill, 'is the Pope too liberal?' Donohue explained that the Pontiff is fair, he's trying to shake up the Catholic Church and make it more palatable in today's society. Obviously, some of the changes are shaking up the Vatican hierarchy and although apparently uncomfortable with some of the modifications made by Pope Francis, Donohue would never disparage the Holy Father.

The first topic of discussion was gay marriage and the newly 'liberal' stance of the Pope. Donohue says that a homosexual person is of no moral distinction, which acknowledges the fact that those who are gay are not choosing to be so (and that's about time).

The Pope doesn't believe man is fit to judge other men, especially since Jesus did specify in the Bible that there are men who are born eunuchs, inferring homosexuality, and was tolerant of these children of God. Donohue explains that when Francis was a Cardinal in Argentina many years ago, he said that gay marriage was the work of the devil. Obviously, he, like many people today, has evolved on the matter.

In addition to this more accepting stance on Gay Marriage, the Pope has also helped simplify the process of nullifying a marriage. It has been far too complex so the Pontiff is attempting to make it simpler, especially for those in developing countries. But back to homosexual marriage, is this new position in conflict with the fact that the Catholic Church views gay sex as a sin? Unfortunately, it is. The Catholic League President explains that the church has a high bar, and celibacy for a homosexual (man, no one spoke of women here) is something that the church demands.

When Colmes asked if gay Catholics must remain celibate, Donohue explained that, as crazy as that sounds, it is true. Alan asked if that's a reasonable expectation and Bill said yes, if you're Ghandi. Bill explains that Pope Francis is saying that the inclination to have gay sex is disorder, but, according to catechism it is not permissible. But sins are forgivable, just not advocated, obviously. Donohue expressly says that only sex between a man and a woman in marriage is the natural order of things, and if that were to end, so would the human species. Alan reassures him that this is not something we need to worry about one bit.

In summary, the Church is really no more accepting of the reality of being homosexual, but the judgement seems less harsh, and the faith is not overtly condemning them to eternal damnation, anymore. The current Pope is slowly changing hearts and minds with slightly less harsh proclamations, but when it comes down to brass tacks, the Catholic Church really hasn't changed all that much. But a more liberal leader of the church can make the faith seem far more welcoming and tolerant than it appeared, under Pope Benedict.